Hosts Scott Jones and Chris Kutarna explore the timeless question of sustainability. Scott and Chris ask, “Are we part of nature?” In the context of Ford’s big announcement about it’s move to electric for the classic F150 (and Biden’s excitement after a test drive), Scott and Chris explore the environment and our relationship to it through politics, philosophy, religion, and pop culture references.

The Hosts
Chris Kutarna is an author, speaker, facilitator and founder of basecamp (@onecampfire) and the Neue Geographical Society (@braveneueways). He challenges the world to brave new ways, breaking old maps and making new ones towards a shared horizon of a better world.

Scott Jones is a podcaster (Give & Take), speaker, theologian and consultant. He weaves his knowledge of religion, current events, and pop culture to bring listeners on a conversational journey to something entertaining, informative, and oftentimes enlightening.

[00:00] - Intro
[04:50] - The question in context: Are we part of nature?
[10:51] - Political diversity & going ‘green’
[15:35] - Planet of the Apes (spoiler alert) & humanity is separate from nature
[20:30] - Trying to integrate an understanding of nature (Socrates)
[23:50] - Creation stories & philosophy
[27:53] - Reframing sustainability & introducing "The Paper"
[32:00] - The economy, society, and environment
[37:58] - Nature doesn’t seem fragile & nature’s contributions to people (NCP)
[41:55] - Why isn’t this frame obvious?
[47:10] - The frame IS obvious, but it is NOT our present paradigm -- and that’s why changing it is profound.
[50:25] - Scott’s favourite hymn: “All Creatures of Our God and King”
[53:52] - The question that sets us forth
[55:05] - We are nature’s storytellers
[58:25] - Go watch _Star Trek 4 _(spoiler alert)
[1:00:27] - Chris loves Whale Songs.
[1:03:24] - The close

The Timeless Outputs
The Nature Positive paradigm facilitates a much deeper and more complex narrative to explore sustainability. The Paper suggests we reject the venn diagram of economy, society, and environment as equally important components with competing interests. Instead, the model should be nested circles - environment the largest, with society nested within and economy within society. These are not competing interests, they are a hierarchy. Economy happens in the context of society, and society happens in the context of the environment.

Scott & Chris have lots of questions: How can we navigate our conception of infinity and our radical finitude? How did we depart from the prehistoric understanding of oneness with nature? Is the electric F150 signalling a shift away from climate change as political fodder?

“The gift of being human is that we can tell the story of nature, and be nature’s mouthpiece.” Maybe the solution to the climate crisis starts with recognizing - however obvious - nature’s fragility.

What to do next?
Follow the Brave New Thinking Clubhouse: Scott loves Clubhouse. A lot. And, we’re hosting a debrief of this episode and workshop for the next one (Maybe about money?) in Clubhouse on Monday, May 31 at 9:00pm GMT. Follow the Brave New Thinking Clubhouse to join.

Subscribe & don’t miss an episode: Next week, Scott & Chris take on money, or rather the question “What does money mean now?” (If you join Monday’s Brave New Thinking Clubhouse, you might get a mention.)

And, consider the outputs: Check out & read The Paper if you’re into that. Ask yourself: “why is something so obvious so profound?” And, life is a team sport, so share it with a friend or colleague and have your own conversation, too.

Bonus: Go watch Star Trek 4, Planet of the Apes, or listen to some whale songs.

The Socials
basecamp @onecampfire
The Neue Geographical Society @braveneueways

Chris @ChrisKutarna
Scott @ScottKentJones